Let's be straight about it: this was a fucked up, poorly handled situation by just about everyone involved. But really, it all comes down to Moon thinking it was an awesome idea to post a
How should Wiscon have responded to that?
I said from the first that it made me uncomfortable to just rescind the invitation. And obviously I don't know much about what went on behind the scenes--except that it was bad enough that
I worried, and worry, about the precedent it sets. Does this mean any con can disinite based on what you post on your blog? I post some loud mouthed shit on here, yo, and if, say, Convergence disinvited me because there were conservative kids on the concom and I came out online or because I said the recent Apex post was a puddle of liquid dramallama shit designed to increase page views and make the author feel like a persecuted maverick (which I'll be saying shortly), then I'd hit the roof of the fucking world. (Convergence would never do that. Just an example.) But there are two issues there:
One, Wiscon is specifically a political and progressive con. In its mission statement is a pledge not only to promote feminism but anti-racism--a con has the right to not invite guests to be honored who align themselves against the mission of the con. Which is what I've always said should have happened in the first place: this isn't the first time Moon has expressed such opinions, and I feel a concom should always Google before inviting. I certainly invite any con to which I go as guest of honor to pre-Google me.
Two, at any point, Moon could have said something along the lines of believing in the exchange of ideas and that a diverse population of ideas is always stronger, so she understood she had hurt people and at least regretted the mass deletion (that is not how we play nice on the internet, kids) if not the content of her post, and since she was being honored by a con that expressly believed the opposite of what she said, she would be open to listening and learning. All she had to do was express some knowledge of the effects of her actions in public and all of this would have taken on a different tone, I think. Her refusal to engage or to allow others to continue to engage with the post has made a lot of my sympathy for her as a GoH losing her position--which might actually be unprecedented--evaporate. Because here on the netz, we don't just shut it all down, refuse to talk to anyone, take our toys home, and expect everything to be ok. You can do all those things, but then no one wants to hang out with you anymore.
Was this the best move? No. The best move would have been for Moon to use her powers of imagination to figure out what a shitstorm this would become--because it was incredibly predictable. It's gone pretty much the way all of these things go, with a lot of yelling and a lot of sensible conversation ignored because people get REALLY UPSET when you call them out on their crap, with poorly thought out responses and poorly worded apologies from everyone except the person who needs to apologize. Once this had all happened, I'm not sure what the concom could have done once people were resigning from the concom and pledging to stay away from the con in droves. In the end, Wiscon is still a small regional con that can't afford to alienate its most vociferous base, and this was taking over the whole con. It was not going to go away, and it would have made the con massively hostile and fractious as a space, and fun would not have been on the table. And so I am grateful for this choice because I love Wiscon and want to keep going and not feel crappy about supporting it and I want to have fun while I'm there, not sit around waiting for the mushroom cloud of drama to rise over the Concourse.
The precedent? Still worrying. Does a con have to have consensus from its GoHs? Again, Wiscon is uniquely political and again, a little research goes a long way. I don't think that if I was going be GoH at PinkElephantCon and I loudly yelled about how pink elephants suck and should all be turned into erasers I really should be welcome afterward if I refused to say anything at all in response to the totally reasonable and utterly inevitable outcry, nor, really, that I wanted to be GoH there in the first place. (The enormous privilege of believing one should be welcomed no matter what one says and that one should not even have to deign to engage boggles me. Just talk it out like, well, a civilized person!) And that's a deliberately ridiculous example--this is a lot more serious. No one argues they have the right to invite people who are on the same page. Disinviting is extreme--but the post was extreme.
I don't know what's right here, if anything is. I see a lot of people saying it's too little too late, though I'm not sure what else is desired. We can't force Moon to apologize, and public flogging is still a no-no. I think Wiscon has aligned itself concretely now as a progressive, not just a feminist con, and we need to support that choice. It will be interesting to see who, if anyone, they invite in place of Moon. It's awful that so much damage has been done by one woman's post, but now we have to decide how we move forward, and what this means for the future of Wiscon--and hope it doesn't mean anything alarming for the future of other cons.
It's done. What do we do now?
2010-10-21 09:03 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:04 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:05 pm (UTC)
I think we need to hear from Moon on the subject, honestly. Her silence is shit.
2010-10-21 09:07 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:11 pm (UTC)
You and I have both been on the wrong end of exactly that kind of internet hatestorm (less you, perhaps, since you're more careful about what you say on the internet than I am, and your opinions are more popular). Once the debate reaches the level of howling shitstorm, like it did, there is absolutely no advantage to be gained by pursuing it, or allowing it to grow. At some point closing comments and cauterizing the wound becomes the right thing to do, because if any useful conversation is going to be salvaged from the situation, it's not going to be in the context of a blog post.
You already know that I think that the WisCon ConCom made the wrong move by disinviting Moon, and I think that it was in betrayal of the ideals of progressivism that you claim that the convention has come to support. It was, on the other hand, probably the smart thing to do, if as you say the convention would have fallen apart if they hadn't done it. It was a tough call either way.
Personally, I will say that even though I disagreed vehemently with Moon's original post, this action has made me disinclined to ever attend WisCon. They came down on the side of stifling a dissenting voice, and despite the complexity and murky ambiguity of the situation, that's not something I can get behind.
2010-10-21 09:26 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:14 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:17 pm (UTC)
I worries me whenever I first hear of someone being fired, disinvited, or otherwise censured for their opinions (see also the Juan Williams case). What effect will that have on what people think they can say or debate publicly? Are the grounds sufficient for this kind of action? In this case, I can't automatically say it's a good move, in large part for the reasons you discuss in your post, and also because I am always apprehensive about how situations like this affect public speech and dialogue. Moon should be taken to task for her words, and they should be debated and debunked, but where should a community or network go from there? I'm not sure.
2010-10-21 09:20 pm (UTC)
But I still agree, and I think the idea that she would ever have submitted to a teachable moment was laughable. Who would?
2010-10-21 09:17 pm (UTC)
Good, thoughtful post, covering the bases that need to be covered.
2010-10-21 09:19 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:21 pm (UTC)
Apologies if this is in anyway derailing. I was deeply disturbed by Ms Moon's original post and I do not intend to detract from that side at all. I was thinking through your comments on netiquette.
Edited at 2010-10-21 09:24 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:26 pm (UTC)
This is a wonderful post, and clearly delineates the extremely complex issues involved.
(@swanberg on twitter)
2010-10-21 09:30 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:37 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 09:59 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 10:04 pm (UTC)
Lesson learned!
2010-10-21 10:03 pm (UTC)
This wasn't about free speech, this was about a convention which--as you say--has an explicit mission which the guest had made clear she did not support.
As a friend of mine commented also, free speech is about allowing people to talk, but it does not require us to explicitly honour them, and being a GoH is an honour.
2010-10-21 10:16 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 10:24 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 10:17 pm (UTC)
2010-10-22 12:12 am (UTC)
2010-10-21 10:37 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 11:10 pm (UTC)
2010-10-21 10:59 pm (UTC)
Sadly, the one thing I really want is a good statement from the SF3 for the reason for the reversal from their initial announcement (unless it's something like there being legitimate death threats, in which case, keep us all in the dark). Especially if it's to say 'The membership spoke up and we listened'
Chris
2010-10-22 07:03 am (UTC)
http://sf3.org/2009/04/two-resolutions/
These two motions were passed during the SF3 annual meeting on October 3, 2010. These motions represent RECOMMENDATIONS to the WisCon committee from the mother corporation SF3. They do not represent action taken by the WisCon committee.
MOTION: it is the sense of the SF3 Annual Meeting that rescinding Elizabeth Moon’s GoH invitation would best serve WisCon’s goals and community.
MOTION: a vote of confidence (and chocolate) in the troika in their attempts to handle a very difficult situation so far.
2010-10-21 11:45 pm (UTC)
But after this, and after your note about the incident with Mr. Wright, I know I can usually come here for a clear view of what's going on and usually a very eloquently stated opinion that matches my own.
I just wanted to say, thank you. Thank you for these posts, and thank you for being a reasonable and intelligent person. You win.
2010-10-22 12:21 am (UTC)
2010-10-22 01:29 am (UTC)
2010-10-22 01:26 am (UTC)
2010-10-22 02:28 am (UTC)
2010-10-22 01:38 am (UTC)
I would hope this wouldn't happen often -- as you said, advance research goes a long way toward preventing such things. But so does gracious behavior on the part of someone who has been invited as a guest... whether to a convention, a private home, or anything else.
i respectfully disagree
2010-10-22 01:53 am (UTC)
How many religious Muslims are coming to WisCon? I'm an Orthodox Jew and I doubt I'd feel very welcome there. There's plenty of leftwing discourse at non-"progressive" conventions (I remember mentioning to people that I was riding an elevator with at Arisia that I was going to be on the Cylons and Monotheism panel and one said "Is NO-theism ok?" as if I just told them that I eat babies and kill puppies and was on the verge of convincing them to do the same) that the idea of spending three days full of people who will see my yarmulke as an opportunity for a "teachable moment" fills me with revulsion.
Most Con attendants are angry on behalf of Muslims, but they aren't Muslims. Nor would they be comfortable in the presence of a religious Muslim.
As far as her turning off her comments - so what? I have had plenty of internet fights that I walked away from. Usually I just stopped reading them. There comes a certain point where no one really is saying anything new and the discussion has gotten old. Moon didn't want to read hundreds of people all jumping over each other to tell her how wrong she is and that's her call.
Re: i respectfully disagree
2010-10-22 02:29 am (UTC)
2010-10-22 04:48 am (UTC)
In my heart of hearts, I can't help but feel like someone on the concom should have been on the horn with Moon about that post about 5 minutes after it went up, having that teachable moment in a personal, immediate way. "Hi. That post you just made? Yeah, some of what you say here seems awfully problematic. Let's talk about why, and how it complicates our relationship." At the very least, that would have given the whole fiasco more structure.
Dissonance, divergence, ignorance, fuck-ups, and so on are a part of life. Nobody's perfect on everything. Moon has written some thoughtful stuff. Unfortunately, she's got some regressive, biased attitudes that she vigorously defends. If she's getting invited to play along, that can't be something that goes unaddressed.
I'm on the fence about the disinviting thing. On the one hand, a con like Wiscon with a specific mission may have more room than something more general like Dragon*Con. On the other hand, I think concoms are well-served by having some kind of policy that protects them in the event that somebody does something genuinely egregious.
2010-10-22 02:56 pm (UTC)
2010-10-22 06:29 am (UTC)
I see a lot of people saying it's too little too late, though I'm not sure what else is desired.
As one of the people who was saying this, and is now ambivalent (or maybe more bewildered), what I'd like to see is an explanation of WTF from... someone in charge. Because what I find most damaging is the silence.
2010-10-22 01:05 pm (UTC)
Yes, now we can talk about homosexuality, but not if anyone might get offended. Yes, we can talk about race, but not if anyone might get offended. In the end, the racism is in the hearts of those who choose to take offense rather than actually discuss an issue with which they (ghasp) might actually disagree.
You can win any argument by calling your opponents racist. Congradulations. You've closed the door on Juan Williams, on Elizabeth Moon, and on my respect. I see no reason to follow this any further.
2010-10-22 03:30 pm (UTC)