So I re-plug in the TV, catch up on LJ and Twitter, respond to various conversations on my beloved internet.
I read
My good experiences have been with writers' workshops, of which I've been to two and both of which I've loved. And I learned a hell of a lot, the kind of learning I crave having had pretty little in the way of formal writing training. But that's a week, and maybe it's personal shyness and maybe it's enculturated "I don't want to bother anyone," but I feel like it's not done to turn to those same groups for other books when the workshop is done. I fell like that's bad etiquette.
So in a lot of ways I'm on my own until I turn a manuscript in to my editor. I want a writing group, in person if possible, or on chat, or even a couple of awesome pro or semi-pro level beta-readers. (I have beta-readers, but they're all busy with their own stuff and about 70% of people I've ever sent a manuscript to for comment never got back to me.) But it seems so elusive, and I have no idea how to put it together. That whole not wanting to bother people with my silly drafts makes it all the harder.
I think I'd probably have a whole different process if I had a writing group. Sometimes I feel like groups are for cool kids, insiders, and I'm the perpetual geek among geeks, always on the outside. Sometimes I feel like I gave up and I just don't try anymore, so it's my own fault.
But like anything else, agents, editors, therapists, partners--having the right one is more important than just having one, and maybe someday the right one will come along.
At least I have
thoughtful
2010-01-29 02:38 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 02:40 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 02:44 am (UTC)
Have you thought about asking the people at the workshop if it'd be okay to hit them up for advice, but doing it before you go home? I don't know if it'd help with the "I don't want to bother people with my silly drafts" thing, but it might help with the feeling as if it's bad etiquette.
Caution: Contains Unsolicited Advice
2010-01-29 02:50 am (UTC)
Have you thought of asking your agent if s/he knows any other similarly minded authors? And e-troduction from an agent might be welcome to other folks in the same position.
I hope you find a group. =)
2010-01-29 02:51 am (UTC)
It is not exactly like a writer's group, but it might be helpful.
2010-01-29 02:52 am (UTC)
It's definitely like you said, though -- the right group is more important than just having one. I'd rather have one good critique partner than five who just don't fit.
2010-01-29 03:00 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 02:59 am (UTC)
Oh, well. Maybe someday.
2010-01-29 03:16 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 03:19 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 03:36 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 03:39 am (UTC)
...Hmm, that comment went somewhere different than I expected. Uh... good luck in finding a group of awesome, supportive writers!
2010-01-29 03:44 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 03:51 am (UTC)
If I weren't in Michigan I'd be all over the writing group you propose. But, yeah... Michigan. If you don't mind beta readers who get back to you through the internet, I'd love to help any way I could. Just throwing it out there.
2010-01-29 04:13 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 04:18 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 04:38 am (UTC)
2010-01-30 10:26 pm (UTC)
2010-01-29 05:04 am (UTC)
I take this kind of stuff seriously. This is work. If I am in a group and I have critiques due- I will not let my group down. I section out time and make sure I have everything done, like an assignment for a class. But when I show up, I am the only one there or the only one who has done the work.
And then it becomes a slog of me handing out critiques to the group, often cutting into my own writing time, but I get nothing in return.
So, yeah, I am bitter about writing groups. I would like to see one that worked. Supposedly
2010-01-29 06:33 pm (UTC)
1. If your beta readers are not at all into what you're doing but not offended by it, they're going to focus on what's broken and what was surprisingly pleasing to them.
2. A writer's group is not your target audience, ideally your beta group is because they're more readers than writers. In my xp in writers' groups writers are either going to rip you to pieces because they're insecure asshats or suck your ass in the hope that you'll become famous one day (or are already famous) and will help them. I've witnessed this several times in my xp. If your readers group are voracious readers, they know what works in a plot, can pick up grammar issues, inconsistancies, etc.
Your challenge, Cat, is going to be to find a group of beta readers who will be really honest with you with their opinions because you're an award winning author so now you have the opposite problem to your prior experience. Readers are going to potentially feel like, OMG, Cat's written a ton and is famous, what the hell do I know in comparison?
2010-01-29 05:06 am (UTC)
I tried out an in-person crit group with (dare I say it?) unvetted writers, and it just didn't work out as well for me. It can be really uneven: the level of talent and seriousness about writing as well as the level of critique that is expected and how to deal with a negative crit were all over the place. While my words aren't precious, I want to know that the person reading my stuff is on the same wavelength and is going to give it the same consideration--and nitpick to the same degree--that I am with his/her work.
Finding a good group is hard work, and I wish you luck.
2010-01-29 05:26 am (UTC)
I’m guessing I might qualify as “semi-pro.” I you were to send me a draft manuscript, I would read it and tell you what I thought of it, and I’m sure I would enjoy doing that, particularly if you were to find my criticism useful. But, unfortunately, it would take me a long time. I read slowly, and I don’t have as much time for it as I would like. But we could give it a shot.
I can be very direct.
2010-01-29 05:28 am (UTC)
I had the best writing group in the world once, but people moved on. I don't expect to find another like it. But you should have the same experience once. I really hope for you to have it. I can't advise you well because ours just fell together by good fortune.
P.
2010-01-29 05:41 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 07:14 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 07:37 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 07:42 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 07:48 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 08:59 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 10:34 am (UTC)
2010-01-29 11:20 am (UTC)
Generally, 2-3 people will get back to me. Sometimes 4 or even the whole 5, but it ensures that I at least get 2 viewpoints diff't from mine. It's a mix of Clarion buddies and pro buddies I've picked up over the years. They've really been invaluable.
It doesn't hurt to ask. Even just sending a select group of folks with wide reading tastes your latest with the disclaimer is generally cool to most folks. Most people are really honored to be somebody's beta reader. I know I am when mine send me stuff.
2010-01-29 04:42 pm (UTC)
2010-01-29 02:08 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)
2010-01-29 02:57 pm (UTC)
I love your writing, it's meaty and tasty; however, your online copy of Fairyland ... I wanted so bad to email the edits to you ;) please don't think I'm picky about style; I'm not. But punc and usage, well, maybe LOL
I'm also a Reader. I keep loose track of my yearly reading: in my library there are over 6000 books, and yes, I've read most of them. I'd be honored, no, blessed to be a Reader of yours, and give honest feedback. I have no aspiration to be a writer (tho I've done a little-who hasn't nowadays?). If you'd like to take a chance with me, you can contact me thru my sometime blog, againstthegrainz.wordpress.com. I think you were there once.
Being an artist, I understand about wanting the Group thing... It took many years for me to find one; I finally do tho; and even a few artist friends who like and even enjoy my art style! Persist in your search, it's there tho it might be only Net not in person... Maine us not heavily populated (one if its attractions for me:) )
Meran
(Anonymous)
2010-01-29 03:01 pm (UTC)
Meran